You know, what are their childrens lives like, and how is this producing different kinds of Chinese-Africa relations that oftentimes dont get highlighted, for instance, in news media. You know that oftentimes its either framed through the kind of lens of the. Saying the Chinese are over there fostering neocolonialism and imperialism in Africa, or its from the Chinese state narrative of look at all that were doing there. You know, look at our, how fruitful these relations with China are. And Im far more interested in the kind of, in the gray, you know, where we can recognize that this is an extremely uneven set of relations. But at the community level theres far more complexity in terms of actually whats, whats transpiring. Frazier, thanks for giving us an update on the past relationships, and the present relationship between China and Africa, and African Americans.
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I mean, they basically, i mean Im sure you probably saw this, they build these kind of compounds where their workers kind of operate. And to some degree its almost as if its their own kind of like mini version of China within, you know, Angola or Tanzania, or one writer of these, you know. And as a result, that prevents any kind of sharing of culture, any kind of communication about difference. As a result these relations are far more economic than cross cultural. But I think thats one, thats one version. Because i do think there are, there also are, you know, Chinese entrepreneurs whove moved to various African countries. And you know, and that and thats become their home. So there are also Chinese, kind of, enclaves in various countries. And you know, weve seen, its moreso Chinese men who are marrying African women, and having art mixed race children. But its interesting to see this kind of development where the Chinese men are kind of becoming part of, you know, African communities. And Im interested to see there what their lives are like, what their wives lives are like.
Robeson frazier: I definitely think theres a difference. I mean, one of the clear differences, you know, at least in the 60s it was represented and framed through the notion of revolutionary solidarity. You know, solidarity for essay the sake of upending colonial and imperial relations. And the Chinese were also pretty active and showcasing this kind of solidarity not just through economic, military support but also, you know, through cross cultural exchange. So, and Ill say this, it was oftentimes more leaning towards Africans coming to China, for instance, to study, and receive bachelors degrees and masters and professional degrees in particular kinds of subjects. So it was more leaning towards Africans going to China as opposed to China, chinese going to Africa to engage and delve into Africa, cultures of different African countries and nations you know. But nonetheless it was still oriented around a kind of sense of sharing of culture and the role that culture could play, and fostering political alliance solidarity. I think today, i mean, as you describe, i think what were seeing more of is Chinese companies, for instance, kind of coming into African countries and really kind of sequestering, segregating their workers.
You know, build hospitals that at times, you know, the hospitals built but theres been no development of human skills where there can be doctors, African based doctors to actually work in those hospitals. So the relationship is extremely uneven. But I do think what were witnessing there is something also unique and distinctive. And were still trying to cultivate the right kind of language and frameworks to make sense. I was in Africa a couple of years ago, and I had the opportunity to come in close proximity to a lot of Chinese workers, as well as some of the cultural events. And it seemed, it felt to me that they were standoffish. Is there some something about their cultural, historical cultural behavior, or is there a distance now between the Chinese workers in Africa as opposed to how the Chinese were operating in Africa in the 60s and the 70s, when they were interacting with the young.
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So i think theres a serious kind of investment by the Chinese state and corporations in Africa, and thats really kind of, that, that isnt new. I mean, Chinas been really prioritizing Africa since the 1960s. You know, we can go back to the tanzam railway, and you know, one of the benefits, at least early on of Chinas efforts in Africa was that China was willing to provide interest free loans. So for many African nations they looked at the Chinese as, you know, an important alternative to that of the imf or the world Bank, or you know, the kind. Model of globalism, which is really neocolonialism, neoimperialism.interpretation
But I do think kind of that what were seeing in China right now. You know, some folks actually refer to it as kind of like chinas own neocolonial project in Africa. And they are, its clear the relationship is extremely uneven. The relationship is extremely leaning towards Chinas own interests. Chinas ability to dump surplus goods in African countries, Chinas ability to, you know, theyre dealing with serious labor issues, so theyre able to reposition workers, Chinese workers in Africa to, you know, build roads and build stadiums that no one ever uses.
So its interesting, you know, that this book, which really becomes, especially after hes translated in the late 1960s. I mean, you know, people, i mean, i talked to my uncles who refer to the ways that it just took on a certain kind of power and currency and capital, you know, in terms of being able to juxtapose different kinds of political beliefs. You know, in Harlem, in Baltimore, in Philadelphia in the late 60s and 70s, but even today as I said, like how people are still pulling from pulling from. Well, lets leap forward a minute, because Im concerned with the relationship now of China and the continent, of the African nations. Can you, do you have any kind of opinion of whats happening over there now in terms of the relationship and interaction between black Africans, or Africans in the diaspora in particular, and the Chinese expansion into Africa? Robeson frazier: Well, number one, i think its, youre seeing different kinds of developments in different countries.
You know, so China is more heavily involved and active in specific countries. But I do think were seeing right now a serious kind of prioritization among the Chinese government among Chinese corporations and really expanding their economic footprint within the continent. As you and I were talking about before in terms of, you know, like providing resources, money for infrastructure development. You know, working to expand the footprint of different kinds of Chinese technological devices, cell phones. You know, within various African countries, kind of national marketplaces. I mean, were also seeing it from the other side in terms of Chinas efforts to, you know, gain access to various African natural resources. I mean, you know, specifically the kind of you know minerals that are utilized within our cell phones.
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Robeson frazier: so theres a great and fascinating question. I mean, actually, to also refer to your previous question when you were talking about and mentioning Robert Franklin Williams, he and his partner Mabel Williams, another extremely important black radical activist thinker, internationalist, biography both of them. You know, i think the circulation even of maos Red book, robert Franklin Williams is essential. He and Mabel Williams are a central factor too in Red books ability to travel and take on a certain kind of political, cultural capital in places beyond China throughout the 1960s and 70s. From my studies, when people like, you know, the young men and women who establish the Black panther Party for Self Defense, the young black men and women who establish organizations like the revolutionary Action movement, the congress of African people, the works, one. And so its particularly interesting how his positions about protracted struggle, you know, about revolutionary praxis, about tactical alliances, about united fronts, how that takes on a certain kind of currency and value in places and in political context beyond that of China throughout this. And I think today while the book maybe doesnt and those works dont have the same amount of currency, at least within the. S., i mean, i still find in my relationships and conversations with organizers, activists who are part of radical organizations, they too, you know, reading maos works and trying to figure out and center how these ideas might be applied within the specific national.
Hes an associate professor at Annenberg School of Communications and journalism at the University of southern California. He is also the author of The east Is Black: Cold War China in the Black radical Imagination, which explores black American political relationship with Communist China during the cold War. Professor Frazier, thanks for joining. Robeson frazier: Oh, its a pleasure to join you today. Eddie conway: so the spread of Chairman maos Red lauder book seemed to have played a key role in our development and organizing, and it looks like it was also involved in the liberation movements in Africa as well as in south America. What happened with that? Is that Red book still important today? Whats the outcome of that?
very well, original and fast. Also, you can get your custom report revised up to fifty times. Where do you find that anymore? And keep in mind that you can order a report from m anytime you want, because the staff is always there to help you get the best essay you can. Eddie conway: Welcome to The real News. Im Eddie conway coming to you from Baltimore. Recently i have been looking at the relationship between African-Americans and the Chinese, and the relationship between China and the nations of the African continent. So joining me today to give us an overview of that relationship.
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